Nihilizam

[Josif Visarionovič]

malo rasprave nauka vs stap i kanap nije na odmet

 

 

[The Joker]

Jeste,jer mi idete na bubrege sto mu dozvoljavate i podsticete da nastavi da kenja.

[~Highlander~]

Mislim da nihilizam ne može biti socijalna ideologija doba u kome živimo...Verovatno će to biti, ako i kada se desi kolaps društva i države kao njegove tvorevine, s obzirom da afirmiše najvišu individualnost, a savremena društva karakteriše velika socijalna međuzavisnost. Na kraju, svaka ideologija,...bilo kakav sistem (Izvinjavam se što je termin malo neadekvatan, ali mislim da možete da me pratite.) predstavlja racionalizaciju ( u psihološkom smislu) postojećeg društveno-ekonomskog sistema, pa tako može biti i sa nihilizmom.

[The Joker]

Nihilizam je osudjen na underground,definitivno,slazem se.

[~Highlander~]

....Mada osnovne ideje koje su u njega ugrađene su sjajne i mogle bi se bar delimično realizovati...Možda i uz promenu konteksta, ali ne treba biti dogmata, već praktičan.

[The Joker]

Kao i u svemu,na kraju krajeva.Treba uvek biti bar koliko-toliko pragmatican

[Jabba the Hutt]

malo rasprave nauka vs stap i kanap nije na odmet

Aha, a i moze da proizvede sate smeha

A sad stvarno, back to the subject- koga smatrate za najveceg filozofa nihilizma?

 

da, to se sve dela djavola.

Cekaj, pa oni su postojali pre hriscjasntva, opet ukazujem na onom sto sam ti malopre pricao na Pravoslavlju, sta je sa tim ljudima? Nikad nisu bili u prilici da prime Hriscjanstvo, i zato su osudjeni da nikad ne udju u raj?! E pa izvini, al' to je gomila govana, po svakom racionalnom poimanju

[The Joker]

Aha, a i moze da proizvede sate smeha

A sad stvarno, back to the subject- koga smatrate za najveceg filozofa nihilizma?

 

 

Cekaj, pa oni su postojali pre hriscjasntva, opet ukazujem na onom sto sam ti malopre pricao na Pravoslavlju, sta je sa tim ljudima? Nikad nisu bili u prilici da prime Hriscjanstvo, i zato su osudjeni da nikad ne udju u raj?! E pa izvini, al' to je gomila govana, po svakom racionalnom poimanju

Vera i racionalnost?pobogu,covece!

A kao odgovor na prvo pitanje-

 

2. Friedrich Nietzsche and Nihilism

 

Among philosophers, Friedrich Nietzsche is most often associated with nihilism. For Nietzsche, there is no objective order or structure in the world except what we give it. Penetrating the façades buttressing convictions, the nihilist discovers that all values are baseless and that reason is impotent. "Every belief, every considering something-true," Nietzsche writes, "is necessarily false because there is simply no true world" (Will to Power [notes from 1883-1888]). For him, nihilism requires a radical repudiation of all imposed values and meaning: "Nihilism is . . . not only the belief that everything deserves to perish; but one actually puts one's shoulder to the plough; one destroys" (Will to Power).

 

The caustic strength of nihilism is absolute, Nietzsche argues, and under its withering scrutiny "the highest values devalue themselves. The aim is lacking, and 'Why' finds no answer" (Will to Power). Inevitably, nihilism will expose all cherished beliefs and sacrosanct truths as symptoms of a defective Western mythos. This collapse of meaning, relevance, and purpose will be the most destructive force in history, constituting a total assault on reality and nothing less than the greatest crisis of humanity:

 

What I relate is the history of the next two centuries. I describe what is coming, what can no longer come differently: the advent of nihilism. . . . For some time now our whole European culture has been moving as toward a catastrophe, with a tortured tension that is growing from decade to decade: restlessly, violently, headlong, like a river that wants to reach the end. . . . (Will to Power) Since Nietzsche's compelling critique, nihilistic themes--epistemological failure, value destruction, and cosmic purposelessness--have preoccupied artists, social critics, and philosophers. Convinced that Nietzsche's analysis was accurate, for example, Oswald Spengler in The Decline of the West (1926) studied several cultures to confirm that patterns of nihilism were indeed a conspicuous feature of collapsing civilizations. In each of the failed cultures he examines, Spengler noticed that centuries-old religious, artistic, and political traditions were weakened and finally toppled by the insidious workings of several distinct nihilistic postures: the Faustian nihilist "shatters the ideals"; the Apollinian nihilist "watches them crumble before his eyes"; and the Indian nihilist "withdraws from their presence into himself." Withdrawal, for instance, often identified with the negation of reality and resignation advocated by Eastern religions, is in the West associated with various versions of epicureanism and stoicism. In his study, Spengler concludes that Western civilization is already in the advanced stages of decay with all three forms of nihilism working to undermine epistemological authority and ontological grounding. In 1927, Martin Heidegger, to cite another example, observed that nihilism in various and hidden forms was already "the normal state of man" (The Question of Being). Other philosophers' predictions about nihilism's impact have been dire. Outlining the symptoms of nihilism in the 20th century, Helmut Thielicke wrote that "Nihilism literally has only one truth to declare, namely, that ultimately Nothingness prevails and the world is meaningless" (Nihilism: Its Origin and Nature, with a Christian Answer, 1969). From the nihilist's perspective, one can conclude that life is completely amoral, a conclusion, Thielicke believes, that motivates such monstrosities as the Nazi reign of terror. Gloomy predictions of nihilism's impact are also charted in Eugene Rose's Nihilism: The Root of the Revolution of the Modern Age (1994). If nihilism proves victorious--and it's well on its way, he argues--our world will become "a cold, inhuman world" where "nothingness, incoherence, and absurdity" will triumph.

[~Highlander~]

Baš tako! Niče.

[The Joker]

Sa tom ogradom da on ipak nije ekstremni nihilista...

dok egzistencijalisti...

 

3. Existential Nihilism

 

While nihilism is often discussed in terms of extreme skepticism and relativism, for most of the 20th century it has been associated with the belief that life is meaningless. Existential nihilism begins with the notion that the world is without meaning or purpose. Given this circumstance, existence itself--all action, suffering, and feeling--is ultimately senseless and empty.

 

In The Dark Side: Thoughts on the Futility of Life (1994), Alan Pratt demonstrates that existential nihilism, in one form or another, has been a part of the Western intellectual tradition from the beginning. The Skeptic Empedocles' observation that "the life of mortals is so mean a thing as to be virtually un-life," for instance, embodies the same kind of extreme pessimism associated with existential nihilism. In antiquity, such profound pessimism may have reached its apex with Hegesis. Because miseries vastly outnumber pleasures, happiness is impossible, the philosopher argues, and subsequently advocates suicide. Centuries later during the Renaissance, William Shakespeare eloquently summarized the existential nihilist's perspective when, in this famous passage near the end of Macbeth, he has Macbeth pour out his disgust for life:

 

Out, out, brief candle!

Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player

That struts and frets his hour upon the stage

And then is heard no more; it is a tale

Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,

Signifying nothing. In the twentieth century, it's the atheistic existentialist movement, popularized in France in the 1940s and 50s, that is responsible for the currency of existential nihilism in the popular consciousness. Jean-Paul Sartre's (1905-1980) defining preposition for the movement, "existence precedes essence," rules out any ground or foundation for establishing an essential self or a human nature. When we abandon illusions, life is revealed as nothing; and for the existentialists, nothingness is the source of not only absolute freedom but also existential horror and emotional anguish. Nothingness reveals each individual as an isolated being "thrown" into an alien and unresponsive universe, barred forever from knowing why yet required to invent meaning. It's a situation that's nothing short of absurd. Writing from the enlightened perspective of the absurd, Albert Camus (1913-1960) observed that Sisyphus' plight, condemned to eternal, useless struggle, was a superb metaphor for human existence (The Myth of Sisyphus, 1942). The common thread in the literature of the existentialists is coping with the emotional anguish arising from our confrontation with nothingness, and they expended great energy responding to the question of whether surviving it was possible. Their answer was a qualified "Yes," advocating a formula of passionate commitment and impassive stoicism. In retrospect, it was an anecdote tinged with desperation because in an absurd world there are absolutely no guidelines, and any course of action is problematic. Passionate commitment, be it to conquest, creation, or whatever, is itself meaningless. Enter nihilism.

 

Camus, like the other existentialists, was convinced that nihilism was the most vexing problem of the twentieth century. Although he argues passionately that individuals could endure its corrosive effects, his most famous works betray the extraordinary difficulty he faced building a convincing case. In The Stranger (1942), for example, Meursault has rejected the existential suppositions on which the uninitiated and weak rely. Just moments before his execution for a gratuitous murder, he discovers that life alone is reason enough for living, a raison d'être, however, that in context seems scarcely convincing. In Caligula (1944), the mad emperor tries to escape the human predicament by dehumanizing himself with acts of senseless violence, fails, and surreptitiously arranges his own assassination. The Plague (1947) shows the futility of doing one's best in an absurd world. And in his last novel, the short and sardonic, The Fall (1956), Camus posits that everyone has bloody hands because we are all responsible for making a sorry state worse by our inane action and inaction alike. In these works and other works by the existentialists, one is often left with the impression that living authentically with the meaninglessness of life is impossible.

 

Camus was fully aware of the pitfalls of defining existence without meaning, and in his philosophical essay The Rebel (1951) he faces the problem of nihilism head-on. In it, he describes at length how metaphysical collapse often ends in total negation and the victory of nihilism, characterized by profound hatred, pathological destruction, and incalculable violence and death.

 

Opet,i ovo treba ograniciti od ekstremnih nihilista,ali ovi vec idu korak dalje...

[Jabba the Hutt]

Pratt je odlican, ali meni je Niche vishe llezi, zbog poetskog pristupa filozofiji(Tako Je Govorio Zaratustra), koji mi se jako dopada!

[The Joker]

Aha,tu se slazem,Pratt je malko suvoparan.

[рогозуб]

Nikad nisu bili u prilici da prime Hriscjanstvo, i zato su osudjeni da nikad ne udju u raj?!

NAPISAO SAM da je deo ljudi koji su zhiveli pre Hrista u Raju, jer je Gospod u Veliku Subotu sishao u sheol i propovedao isto kao i ovde na zemlji! koliko si ti dechko glup, pa to nije normano.

 

Baš tako! Niče.

sifilisni pamfletista. kako je kenjao, tako je i kazhnjen ludilom.

[~Highlander~]

Zar bog ne propoveda milost i dobrotu prema drugim ljudima? Koji kurac onda vređaš ljude ovde, kad je jasno ko je glup i zatucan?

 

Skoro sam uzeo da čitam Zaratustru, ali zbog drugih obaveza nisam završio. Ono što sam pročitao i nije loše, mada sam navikao na taj "suvoparan" stil u filozofiji.

[рогозуб]

neznam shta "bog" propoveda, ali Bog zahteva govorenje istine. a ako je vama govorenje istine vredjanje, to je vash problem. dal vi mislite da sam glup il pametan, zatucan ili ne, me se ne dotiche uopshte, mene zanima samo kakav sam po merilima Bozhijeg zakona.

[Jabba the Hutt]

NAPISAO SAM da je deo ljudi koji su zhiveli pre Hrista u Raju, jer je Gospod u Veliku Subotu sishao u sheol i propovedao isto kao i ovde na zemlji! koliko si ti dechko glup, pa to nije normano.

Ok, nemo' da ujedas Pusti hrista u sebe, iskuliraj Mrzi me vise da se raspravljam sa tobom oko ovoga, samo slepac ne bi provalio rupe k'o u Kumodraskoj ulici koje zjape na sve strane u toj prici.

I jos jednom, hvala na komplimentima, obozavam kada mi pokazes najlepsi svog hriscjanstva vredjajuci ljude koji se ne slazu sa tobom.

[рогозуб]

I jos jednom, hvala na komplimentima,

pa shta se koji moj raspravljash samnom kada ni ne chitash shta pishem. naravno da mislish da ima rupa u mojoj prichi kad ni ne chitash.

[~Highlander~]

Ovakav fanatizam i fatalizam može postojati samo u slučaju teških psihosocijalnih i psihoseksualnih devijacija - psihološki poremećaji i poremećaji ponašanja povezani sa polnim razvojem i orijentacijom, poremećaj polnog sazrevanja, egodistonička polna orijentacija ili neki drugi psihoseksualni razvojni poremećaj. Jer kako drugačije objasniti rogozubovu potrebu da se svađa, bude vulgaran, njegovu netrpeljivost i stalno pominjanje homoseksualnosti i sodomije....On ima takve tendencije...Samo ih je potisnuo, a zbog nesposobnosti da organizuje svoj život, sveo je sebe u okvire religije. Još jedan simptom koji ukazuje da je emocionalno nestabilna ličnost i nezreo u svakom smislu.

[Josif Visarionovič]

nema sta da se objasnjava.nemoj da ga pominjes u postovima,kad te citira preskoci njegove naravoucenije i nastavi normalnu diskusiju sa ignorisanjem naseg svetog oca.nema tu mnogo filozofije

 

inace slazem se,mrzi me da citiram nabrojane poremecaje ali to je to.kratko i jasno

[рогозуб]

@brdjanin

bla bla bla bla...

Edited May 31, 2008 by Rogozub

[Jabba the Hutt]

Ok, Highlanderu, i ti ga pretera, nije Rogi toliki manijak, ali cenim da pati od odredjenih kompleksa, kao i vecjina takvih troo hriscnjana. No offense..

[Теша Тешановић]

obesmišljava svako lično usavršavanje

kako si ti dechko glup. kako obesmishljava lichno usavrshavanje, kada propoveda da cje uskoro rajska utopija pripasti onima koji se lichno usavrshavaju?!

rajska vrata po hriscanstvu pripadaju onima koji se poklone bogu i zaborave na sebe.

 

slaveći poniznost, a ne dostojanstvo i ponos

kao rezultat filosofije koja kazhe da je ponos dobar a poniznost losha imash drugi svetski rat

 

heheh ovo mi stvarno sada nije jasno.kako je to izazvalo drugi svetski rat??

 

 

a ne ličnu slobodu, slobodu izbora

ako hocjesh u pakao, niko ti ne brani. evo, ti si vecj na tom putu, niko te ne sprechava.

 

pa i ja cu u pakao.evo sada se odricem gospoda isusa hrista za sva vremena i odbacujem pravo na spasenje.neka me uzme pakao.hehehehhe

 

 

 

[Теша Тешановић]

čopor je vrijednost?

stvarno što Rogozub reče, ovog treba banovati zbog gluposti.

Čopr se zasniva na najobičnijoj sličnosti između jedinki i borbi za opstanak, dakle najčistijem instinktu. Vrijednosti se s druge strane bave i saradnjom sa Drugim, ono što životinje NIKAD nisu i nikad neće uraditi.

 

cekaj ti pokusavas da kazes da zivotinje ne saradjuju sa drugim zivotinjama??

 

 

Afrika je danas tu gdje jeste zahvaljujući evropskom kolonijalizmu. Evropljani su izvršili zločin, oni su osudili na smrt te ljude i platiće na ovaj ili onaj način.

 

vec placaju tako sto moraju da trpe imigrante

 

 

A sta, ovi ostali cje da bleje ispred?

otprilike. ako neko ne zasluzhuje muchenje, necje biti muchen, ali nemozhe u raj ako nije Hrishcjanin.

 

pa posto pravoslavna crkva neveruje u cistiliste gde oni idu??kada nemogu ni u raj ni u pakao

[Jabba the Hutt]

heheh ovo mi stvarno sada nije jasno.kako je to izazvalo drugi svetski rat??

 

Zato sto je Hicjina razmisljanja cesto poklapaju sa tom filozofijom, ali mislim da je on shvatao Nicea npr. na potpuno pogresan nacin(verovatno zato sto je bio lud...)

 

vec placaju tako sto moraju da trpe imigrante

 

Ne lupetaj, jesi li ti svestan koliko su drzave koje se i dan danas odnose prema imigrantima kao smecu(Francuska npr.) ekspolatisale africke i domorodacke americke narode u proslosti?!

 

pa posto pravoslavna crkva neveruje u cistiliste gde oni idu??kada nemogu ni u raj ni u pakao

Rogi rece ranije da nece biti muceni, ali da nece biti pusteni u raj, verovatno cje da stoje ispred kapija i prodaju semenke

Edited June 1, 2008 by Jabba the Hutt

[The Joker]

@brdjanin

bla bla bla bla...

Da sam ja ovo postovao dobio bih warn.Hvala Axeane,pravedni mode,svaka ti se dala(kozna bolest).

 

4. Antifoundationalism and Nihilism

 

By the late 20th century, "nihilism" had assumed two different castes. In one form, "nihilist" is used to characterize the postmodern man, a dehumanized conformist, alienated, indifferent, and baffled, directing psychological energy into hedonistic narcissism or into a deep ressentiment that often explodes in violence. This perspective is derived from the existentialists' reflections on nihilism stripped of any hopeful expectations, leaving only the experience of sickness, decay, and disintegration.

 

In his study of meaninglessness, Donald Crosby writes that the source of modern nihilism paradoxically stems from a commitment to honest intellectual openness. "Once set in motion, the process of questioning could come to but one end, the erosion of conviction and certitude and collapse into despair" (The Specter of the Absurd, 1988). When sincere inquiry is extended to moral convictions and social consensus, it can prove deadly, Crosby continues, promoting forces that ultimately destroy civilizations. Michael Novak's recently revised The Experience of Nothingness (1968, 1998) tells a similar story. Both studies are responses to the existentialists' gloomy findings from earlier in the century. And both optimistically discuss ways out of the abyss by focusing of the positive implications nothingness reveals, such as liberty, freedom, and creative possibilities. Novak, for example, describes how since WWII we have been working to "climb out of nihilism" on the way to building a new civilization.

 

In contrast to the efforts to overcome nihilism noted above is the uniquely postmodern response associated with the current antifoundationalists. The philosophical, ethical, and intellectual crisis of nihilism that has tormented modern philosophers for over a century has given way to mild annoyance or, more interestingly, an upbeat acceptance of meaninglessness.

 

French philosopher Jean-Francois Lyotard characterizes postmodernism as an "incredulity toward metanarratives," those all-embracing foundations that we have relied on to make sense of the world. This extreme skepticism has undermined intellectual and moral hierarchies and made "truth" claims, transcendental or transcultural, problematic. Postmodern antifoundationalists, paradoxically grounded in relativism, dismiss knowledge as relational and "truth" as transitory, genuine only until something more palatable replaces it (reminiscent of William James' notion of "cash value"). The critic Jacques Derrida, for example, asserts that one can never be sure that what one knows corresponds with what is. Since human beings participate in only an infinitesimal part of the whole, they are unable to grasp anything with certainty, and absolutes are merely "fictional forms."

 

American antifoundationalist Richard Rorty makes a similar point: "Nothing grounds our practices, nothing legitimizes them, nothing shows them to be in touch with the way things are" ("From Logic to Language to Play," 1986). This epistemological cul-de-sac, Rorty concludes, leads inevitably to nihilism. "Faced with the nonhuman, the nonlinguistic, we no longer have the ability to overcome contingency and pain by appropriation and transformation, but only the ability to recognize contingency and pain" (Contingency, Irony, and Solidarity, 1989). In contrast to Nietzsche's fears and the angst of the existentialists, nihilism becomes for the antifoundationalists just another aspect of our contemporary milieu, one best endured with sang-froid.

 

In The Banalization of Nihilism (1992) Karen Carr discusses the antifoundationalist response to nihilism. Although it still inflames a paralyzing relativism and subverts critical tools, "cheerful nihilism" carries the day, she notes, distinguished by an easy-going acceptance of meaninglessness. Such a development, Carr concludes, is alarming. If we accept that all perspectives are equally non-binding, then intellectual or moral arrogance will determine which perspective has precedence. Worse still, the banalization of nihilism creates an environment where ideas can be imposed forcibly with little resistance, raw power alone determining intellectual and moral hierarchies. It's a conclusion that dovetails nicely with Nietzsche's, who pointed out that all interpretations of the world are simply manifestations of will-to-power.

 

Ovakav fanatizam i fatalizam može postojati samo u slučaju teških psihosocijalnih i psihoseksualnih devijacija - psihološki poremećaji i poremećaji ponašanja povezani sa polnim razvojem i orijentacijom, poremećaj polnog sazrevanja, egodistonička polna orijentacija ili neki drugi psihoseksualni razvojni poremećaj. Jer kako drugačije objasniti rogozubovu potrebu da se svađa, bude vulgaran, njegovu netrpeljivost i stalno pominjanje homoseksualnosti i sodomije....On ima takve tendencije...Samo ih je potisnuo, a zbog nesposobnosti da organizuje svoj život, sveo je sebe u okvire religije. Još jedan simptom koji ukazuje da je emocionalno nestabilna ličnost i nezreo u svakom smislu.

op,nisam uvrebao ovaj post....so true...